Sibyl Service: An Interview with Sophie Dibben
This post features an interview between Dr Charlie Kerrigan and Sophie Dibben, creator and host of the podcast Sibyl Service.
Question 1
Hi Sophie, your podcast 'Sibyl Service' is both packed full of history and a lot of fun. What inspired you to set it up? And did the lockdowns of 2020 influence its creation?
Thank you! To answer both those questions, the inspiration was simply recording conversations during lockdown. My friend is a fisherman in Cornwall and I lived with him for a month. I learnt so much about the fishing industry; the chaos, the masculinity, the traditionalism and the humour on board a Cornish fishing boat. I recorded our conversations (with consent of course). Despite my encouragement, he didn’t want them published. It was so thrilling interviewing him, so I started interviewing more victims, predominately my family and friends. This then developed into conversations with archaeologists, astrologers, strangers, authors, and other raving classicists.
Question 2
Is there a method behind how you select topics for discussion? An overarching theme that interests you and shapes the episodes? As listeners will know, in several episodes an historical character is brought back to life and into studio for a chat, which makes for some really engaging encounters.
It’s a mixed bag. A few times, there were topics playing on my mind, like homosexuality in Ancient Greece and the etymology of idioms, so I asked an author called Peter to be my Xenophon, and my friend to discuss etymology with me. The Elgin Marbles and the new sculpture of Medusa in New York's Times Square were in the news, which sparked the episodes with an archaeologist and an art historian; “Losing my Elgin Marbles” and “Getting Stoned with Medusa.” Travel determines the method. For example, “It’s all Greek to me” is based in Sifnos, Greece, and many conversations are with strangers around the island. “Lostia in Ostia” is a running commentary around the ancient site [of Ostia] near Rome. “Tourist Trap” discusses the tourism industry around Calypso’s Cave and Caravaggio’s “Beheading of St. John the Baptist” in Malta. In Zurich, I stumbled across a replica of “Laocoon and His Sons,” which sparked the episode featuring Michelangelo, “To Sculpt or to Skulk.” The historical characters were primarily chosen by the actors. My Cleopatra, Marcus Aurelius, Hypatia, and Nefertiti were all fantastic people I met around Geneva.
Question 3
What struck me immediately is how the episodes range beyond ancient Greece and Rome, featuring interviews with women like Constance Wilde (1858–1898) and Frida Kahlo (1907–1954). Was this an obvious decision, and what is it about these two women that made you want to chat to them?
The book Oscar Wilde's Italian Dream [by Renato Miracco] made me desperate to meet Constance. Miracco explores why Oscar was so drawn to Italy and Greece; a space for Hellenic transgressions and the legitimization of the ancient tradition of homosexuality. He defined his feelings for men by coining the term “Greek Love.” Then Constance is briefly mentioned, a popular children’s author, a fashion icon, and a leading campaigner for women’s rights. So she certainly merited an interview, as an individual, rather than being Oscar Wilde’s wife. In regards to Frida Kahlo, my Spanish friend flew to meet me in Italy from Mexico. We saw a t-shirt with a white Frida Kahlo on it and we realized how ridiculous it was. She has been white-washed and merchandised on everything, including lots of fast fashion. All of which she stood firmly against as a staunch communist. We wrote an interview to re-birth the real Frida. People should learn about her authentic and passionate personality before buying a key-ring with her face on it.
Question 4
The Italian novelist Elena Ferrante has written about her experience of studying the worlds of ancient Greece and Rome; how she has always felt their closeness, and yet needed to work to understand them in her own way. Your own relationships to classics strikes me as something similar. Am I correct? And what is it about these ancient worlds that makes them relevant to you and to the modern world?
Etymology originally brought me close to the ancient worlds. At school, the main exercise was associating Latin words with the English, (ager – agriculture, hortus – horticulture, nauta – nautical, deus – deity, et cetera). I even interrupt people speaking with ancient Greek etymology references, “oh you’re feeling nostalgic eh, that’s from the Greek “nostos” “home-coming” and "algia", pain." The language we use today is deeply rooted in ancient Greece and Rome, which makes them feel closer to us. I’d also say most people can relate to the historical and mythical characters of the ancient world after reading the texts. Your pride has been wounded, so you withdraw from society because you feel under-appreciated, like Achilles. Sappho’s unfiltered and pure descriptions of her love, such as “Don’t shatter my heart with fierce pain, goddess” (Sappho 1), are perhaps relatable to a millennial but not spoken aloud for fear of humiliation. I have heard men speaking about a powerful woman in wildly similar tones to that of Cicero and Horace’s depiction of Cleopatra. Greta Thunberg standing up to Donald Trump really reminded me of Antigone standing up to Creon. They are relevant because ancient thinkers are helpful for contemporary life. The art of happiness, for example, something ancient Greeks and Romans cared deeply about. The episodes “Marcus, Morale, and Meditations” and “Advice from Aristotle Pt.1” discuss anxiety and training yourself to be happy.
Question 5
At the same time, institutional Classics is going through its own moment of reckoning currently, as wider movements for social justice are forcing researchers, teachers, and institutions to re-evaluate the subject in welcome and progressive ways. Do you see your podcast as part of this process? And what is your take on the direction of the subject more generally?
Classics can be progressive. But it is pretty much all written by men, many fantastic men, and also other powerful men who may have had huge agenda to show off their ‘morality.’ So re-evaluating is so important, and I think the interview process helps. For example, Cleopatra, Hypatia, and Boudicca only have male sources written about them, so I analyze the sources, and by asking ‘them’ directly, it helps to fathom their perspective. For example, the Roman sources on Cleopatra and Boudicca are jam-packed with bias towards women and barbarians. Hypatia, a pagan, has been written about by Christians in a religious civil war between Pagans, Jews, and Christians (355AD). In fact, most sources are biased so we need to analyze them before labelling them as progressive. Was Medea being empowered by Euripides or mocked by a male actor? Many people describe ancient Greece as a haven for the LGBTQ+ community, but we also need to analyze; it this is socially progressive or simply men preferring men to women? Also it is progressive if paedophilia is involved? The line from Euripides’s Medea (someone I really want to interview) - “I would rather stand three times with a shield in battle than give birth once”- is so relevant today. Even Plato tries to find a solution to maternity leave in Book 5 of the Republic, by having children taken away from mothers as soon as they are born. Both of these examples are extreme, but they show how the same problems have been at play since antiquity. Last night, I was reading Pandora’s Jar by Natalie Haynes, and she makes a really interesting point about Phaedra’s shameful false rape allegation. It was a tool against other women who might make this claim. It scared a nation of women, just as it does today.
Question 6
What would you say to somebody who is interested in the ancient worlds of Greece and Rome and wants to learn more?
Read all of Natalie Hayne’s books; Pandora’s Jar, The Children of Jocasta, A Thousand Ships and listen to her Podcast Standing up for the Classics. Then read The Song of Achilles and Circe by Madeline Miller. Next, you should read The Silence of the Girls by Pat Barker. They bring to life mythical characters and bring to light important issues that impact women. They are all sensational.
Question 7
And finally, who can we expect an interview with in the future?
Hippolyta (Queen of the Amazons), Medea, Helen of Troy, Sappho, Antigone, Juvenal and Diogenes.
Sophie Dibben
Sophie is a final-year student of Classics at Trinity College, Dublin.
Her podcast Sibyl Service is available at the links below, and at